Hi,
Im thinking about building my personal NAS(wanted to buy at first one like qnap or similar) but got some concerns regarding data integrity and finaly ended here. First of all, im totally green in this, no programing or linux exp. But hard times wont let me think about turning back. So some questions:
1. After reading some articles i found out that safest way would be to go for ecc memory. now the problem with this is that i could not fint any info on what specific system configurations ecc actually works as supposed to. My closest call was Intel® Server Board S1200KP + Intel® Core™ i3/Intel® Xeon® Processor E3 but problem with integrated video(needs processor with integrated Graphics?). So a)will it work with full ecc support using i3 proc, b) would it be better to use E3 with integrated graphics? For me ecc is priority.
2. Could not find anyting from opteron range, my intentions are to use no older then ddr3, support and reliability wise, thus options are limited. Are there any good opteron configurations with full ecc ddr3 support, second G pcie 8x socket and preferably 2xGbE ports?
3.What differnce it makes Sata2 vs Sata3, in performance? Id rather go for faster, but whats the differnce?
4.Better to have more ports in HBA or split them between HBA and Motherboard? ps: i have read about quality of chipsets so other then that no prob?
5. If its HBA do i need to fix firmware or will it work out of box as intended?
6. Intention was to choose something between Seagate or Hitachi hdds 3TB versions(would go for best of thebest - Samsung, but its KIA now). Hoping Seagate is using Samsung design for thier new hdds, with heads parked in spec slots, not on the platters, no info on Hitachi at all. Any ideas?
7. When started, before even finding guru, i found out, that linux based NAS enclosures sold ready to go have one major problem with most of eco hdds, checking discs every 30s o so(OS feature), and those eco models spin down and/or turn of after about 20s, so we get very high start/stop count, whitch may lead to early retire if hdd. How it works with FreeBSD and ZfS guru? (problem noted was with non server WDs Green line, and some others, cant remember, WD is aware of the problem but... money.
8. Intention was to build system with about 14-16 hdds using zfs2 or zfs3 raid. now there is best config for zfs issue, and there was like 3-5-7 for zfs1 and 4-6-8 for zfs2. Now a)What about larger numbers of zfs2/3? b)What would be optimum for that quantity? I dont want to play with 3 5hdds raids of zfs1. Im opting between 1-2. Not gonna use less than zfs2.
9. Is it possible to install all for green person, or should i think about getting some help from the side?
Current ideas:
Intel® Server Board S1200KP (Intel® Server Board S1200BTL option, not sure if i need it)
Intel® Core i3/Intel® Xeon® Processor E3 (no idea regarding model yet)
a).LSI SAS 9201-16i, 16 ports internal, PCIe 2.0 (perfect for me, sata3)
b).HighPoint DC7280 Data Center HBA 32x SATA/SAS (if would want to expand, sata2???)
Seasonic x760 PSU (idea was 460 fanless at first)
Fractal-design Define XL USB 3.0 Black Pearl (10x internal hdds)
Netstor
a).NS160S
b).NS170S (would use sas but sas is for 4 sata only, not sure about cables with this one)
other hdds internally in 5.25 simple mount, no idea yet
Ram still no idea yet
As of Amd...
Would be the same, but proc - mob configuration unknown
Hope to build and have it working in less than 6mon. Use - video/photo storage.
Thats about it. Thank you in advance.
| Latest interface: | 0.2-beta8 |
| Latest system: | 9.1-005 |
| Aro User 11 posts |
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| nka User 45 posts |
1, You don't need to have a processor with integrated graphics. Only "on board" graphics will do. Or any clean PCI or PCIe card will do too. Also, there's no need for a "server" motherboard. It might be better (more stable or ECC), but if you wish to save money, a customer motherboard will do. 2, Don't know AMD well, but yes, you should try to use DDR3 since they are easy to find and cheaper, ECC RAM Slots are not cheap btw. No need of 2xGbE port, but could be usefull if your are capping the 1 Gbps. 3, Bandwidth, SATA2 have up to about 300 MB/s speed, SATA3 have 600 MB/s. This is the double ! 4, You can do both, 2 HBA is better than 1 HBA and 1 onport port IMO, but both will work well. 5, Depent on the HBA. Some yes, some no. 6, - 7, Don't use "green line" HD. They are slow (5000-5400RPM) and intent for low access statics storage. They do not work well in RAID also, they will die fast. 8, I'm always confused myself about that. But what about 2 x 8 DISK RAID-Z2 ? 9, Yes, you should be able to install it. It's pretty much an easy learning curve. Just do a lot of testing before putting that into "production" so you can learn how it's working and what to or not to do (i.e.: Remove a drive, add a drive, replace one...). Check if your RAID card are compatible. You might want to read here : http://zfsguru.com/forum/freebsdgeneral/21 RAM, try to get the more you can. Atleast 12GB. The more you have, the more cache you'll have, the faster it will be. | |||
| Aro User 11 posts |
Thank you for reply. Ill try to post in the same manner: 1. Intel platform (server) has 3 chips, C202, C204, C206. If i got it correctly, C202 and C204 have integrated gpu into chipset, and with C206 gpu works only with processor, that has gpu integrated in cpu. My selected motherboard has C206 so i need E3-1235,1245,1275 etc. Only server processors support ECC. Asus P8B WS might be an option if i can find out ECC support. Now its like x-files, im still looking for the truth. As of motherboard itself, i dont think it is good ideai to save money on hardware, that will handle 18TB+18TB(8x3TBzfs2+8x3TBzfs2) - 36TB of data in total. There is an article on that http://storagemojo.com/2007/09/19/cerns-data-corruption-research/ After reading this, i dont want to save anymore. 2. ECC is cheap, compared to some OC memory, and 2 LAN connections are good if you connect one directly to computer, other one to router. 4. More cards, more power, and price is less per port for big ones. 7. WD green line is off limits, killer of NAS. But other brands are not bad, and if not constantly used, im not sure if there will be any problems with lower rpm. And none non enterprise hdds should do well, but how many of us are using them? My mind tells me that at least in theory lower rpms are better for vibration dampening, if performance is not the key (im my case its not, ECC is not for that). Maybe a mix of them would go better, in separate zfs, of course. 8. You are right on point here, thou i would like 10x3TBzfs2+10x3TBzfs2 way more, but there is no space for more, and i would have to use sata2in motherboard. 9. I was given an impression that it uses more hdds, not ram. And since its not real RAID card, and has freeBSD firmware and drivers, there should be no problems, me thinks. | |||
| Aro User 11 posts |
Quick update: 1. AMD just released new line of 3300 series procesors, rating from 25 to 65w so 3350 HE 45w, estimated price 125 usd would be perfect for me. 2. In relation to that Supermicro released H8SML-7F motherboard with integrated LSI 2308 SW 8-port SAS2 controller, dual channel 1600 ecc support... http://www.supermicro.nl/Aplus/motherboard/Opteron3000/SR56x0/H8SML-7F.cfm 3. New releases of Hitachi 4TB, and WD 4TB WD4001FAEX models(going to use one of those) 4. Fractal-design Define XL sadly got discontinued. Define XL R2 Black Pearl or corsair Obsidian D900 case would be an option. 5. Most likely ill use 6 to 8 hdds in zfs2 for the start. Now i wait for amd to get to the market, then will see how it goes. Other notes: Would be nice to have one page, where we would have good working builds in detail (hardware and software) for others to compare and maybe to build, so geenhorns would save lots of stress and time doing their first NAS. | |||
| aaront User 25 posts |
I only do raid 10 (zfs mirrored pairs striped together). The speed is much better if you have more than one thing going. Rebuilds and upgrades are super fast. I've never done 4tb drives, but I have a ton of 3tb seagate ST3000DM001-9YN1 doing just fine. In one setup, I have two istar 5in3 hot swaps that put 8 of those drives to an LSI hba for my pool, the other 2 drives to the mb sata for the install pool, and pool zil and l2arc ssd also to mb sata. consumer (but nice) asus mb, 24gb ddr3 non-ecc ram, onboard realtek for lan, intel nic for nfs san. All fits nicely in an antec 900 case. I don't know if this is perfect, but it works pretty damn good. smb sharing for a bunch of people as well as vmware nfs shares for over 10 vms (all constantly used). If you don't get a case with hotswap built in (norco, supermicro, chenbro, etc...) I really like the antec 900/1200 with the istar bays. You can also use a 6in1 2.5" istar for the ssd and still have two slots left over. | |||
| Aro User 11 posts |
Idea is good, if you are using many clients, but in my case its only one client - me. So storage space is priority numero uno. Ihave checked antecs and all i can say, that they are good, if you are a player, but if you go for storage, new cages will add to the cost and its loosing to other cases after that, plus window is not a bonus for me. I might try to start vm for testing linux(dream so far), but no more. And only potencial im looking in the future for is expansion of NAS, so less hdds is bonus for me. Then i could get 12-16 hdds in one cage in final stage. Then custom made cage would be used, like lian li d8000, but just home made provided that ill manage to solve vibration dampening problem myself. Biggest mystery is that lsi controller now, im not sure how many hdds it can support. One very good case is chieftec BA-01B-B-B(8x3,5+6x5,25+2xfdd), that would get me to 16hdds no prob, but i want to have more soundproofing. They have SNT-3051SS hdd enclosure fitting 5 hdds in 3x5,25 slots as well. I just want to work around any aditional costs. | |||
| Aro User 11 posts |
Im in my final run now, but i found one interesting question, that has not been answered yet. Its in post by stefan, where CIPHER gave interesting answer: CiPHER wrote: Why do you need to shutdown? A reboot means the harddrives keep spinning and are powered. Or did you mean a hardware update instead of ZFSguru update? Are your disks using spindown now, or did you use it in the past? In datacenters, disks that have been spinning for a long time and suddenly get powered off and later on again, sometimes do not survive this sudden change. Is this what you are afraid of? In most cases, desktop/consumer harddrives are designed to more frequently spin up and down. But i still think there is truth in it: every sudden change is a (minor) risk. Well im thinking now how to avoid getting in situation like this, so i started thinking about my choice of hdds. I originally wanted to use WD Caviar Black WD4001FAEX 64MB 4TB, but i found out that i can get Western Digital RE WD4000FYYZ 4TB 7200 RPM 64MB for the same price. An obvious choice would be to go for RE version, but this particular answer confused me dearly. I have never intended to use nas 24/7. Would home hdd be better in this case? | |||
| Hakker User 37 posts |
doesn't matter if you use Raid Edition drives or not in such situations. on a side note WD Green drives work fine in ZFS but you need to alter their head parking value with WDidle3. The 7 seconds it has by default WILL destroy the drive but set it higher or disable it and you have a great and cheap drive to use. Also on Hitachi drives. Those are awesome. I run a Batch of WD Greens 3 TB and Hitachi 5K4000 myself without troubles for months now. | |||
| Aro User 11 posts |
Im familiar with green wd issue, and yes, 5K4000 low rpm looks nice, sad, but 7K4000 is much cheaper at my location so no point buying 5K4000 for the price of WD RE. And WD Black is practically the same price, with 5year warranty versus 3 of Hitachi and when you calculate price per year wd is cheaper, so i think i will benefit more with wd, and price of RE version does not differ very much(16%) at the moment. So just like i mentioned before, im interested in case of hdds, when its on and off and then its dead. | |||
| Aro User 11 posts |
Quick update: hardware in order, software...well, not. Never imagined making bootable usb would be so hard(no cdrom and no internet). Working my way up. | |||
| Hakker User 37 posts |
you could also go for a USB dvdrom. Have one myself and is just awesome as I don't use optical that much myself anymore it is kind of handy when you can use it on multiple machines when needed. | |||
| redhams User 21 posts |
It isn't difficult to make a bootable USB, as per my experience. Use Vmware/VirtualBox to boot from Zfsguru ISO, then install as zfs-on-root to the USB. I do it all the time | |||
| Aro User 11 posts |
Final count: im filling it now, so ill just write a summary. CPU working ok, just without power control - OK MB SAS works, chips too hot for my taste - OK RAM works - OK CPU cooler (message: cpu temp - low...)total overkill, but cools the ram too - HAPPY HDDs 512 format RE, hotter then average hdds, but works good - OK CASE metal weak, but best hdd mount i have seen+6x140fan option, but with front doors closed, fans max hdd top temp was 46C, door removed - top 40C, fan door open - top 38C - err, NOT OK, err BAD. It seems Fractal never put all hdds in their cages, and those big fans are just for decoration - avoid, if not ssd or samsung user. I have bottom fan removed, back fan is bequiet silent wings 2 model - silent arctic cooling did not have 140mm pwm. Instalation had to be done using VM, by less green user. Hdds were formated in 4k (how did i miss that one?). In zfs2 config had 20.7TB starting bonus. Note: had to cut corners for intel cpu mount on a backplate - supermicro has very strict parameter restrictions. |
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